Monday, September 16, 2013
Welcome Survey of Doctrine 2013!!
Now that you know how to get here, your postings and comments are welcome. Basic guidelines: Your post/comment to the moderators question should be thought out and brief - 50 words or less. Remember, you will also post comments about your classmates post. Each student is expected to post a minimum of two (2) post per question. You are free to post more... you may find yourself in a Doctrinal Rap! Do check your spelling and punctuation. P. David and I will from time to time make moderating comments to the blog, but this is only to encourage good thought and keep the posts on track. Enjoy! pw
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Thank you P.W for your post.
ReplyDeleteLET US ENJOY THIS SEMESTER IN LEARNING TO CONCENTRATE ON DOCTRINE OF GRACE!
ReplyDeleteAmen, Mr. Shishmanian (blog post test)
DeleteComment on the following Question: What does Reprobate mean in 2 Corinthians 13:5, “Reprobates”—
ReplyDeletea d o k i m o s, and how does P. Stevens say what it does in a persons life?
Reprobates means 'disqualified,' and P. Stevens says it makes a person unable to think (and thereby operate) with God/in His Word within the details of life - operating as if we didn't hear/learn what God said.
DeleteReprobate in the Greek means: to be disapproved. Though the person is a believer, God still disapproves to use someone greatly.
DeleteTo be reprobate means to be disapproved. P. Stevens says that you can be saved, but disapproved of by God in terms of the kingdom.
DeleteThe word "reprobate" refers to person who has failed to show themselves approved before God. Pastor CHS said that a reprobate mindset would prevent a believer from thinking with God.
DeleteReprobate means rejected,depraved,disapproved by God. P.Stevens said we can have a reprobate mind: we cannot lose our salvation but we are not thinking with God in categorical doctrine.
DeleteReprobates in this sense, as far as I can see, is referring to them as unsaved. "Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?- unless you are indeed disqualified." NKJV. Disqualify- pronounce ineligible for something because of an offense or infringement.
DeleteMICAH ORSIE-
DeleteAdokimos means unapproved, rejected, disqualified. P.Stevens says says When we stop thinking with God, we find ourselves fashioning ourselves according to the the former lusts in our ignorance. This also made me think of in Romans 1:28 "Christ gave them over to reprobate minds." Yikes.
According to Strong's concordance, Adokimos means ; unable to stand test, rejected, refuse, worthless. it is sometimes translated as debased, or disqualified.Pastro Stevens said if God's kingdom is not in a christian he is reprobate. He is still saved, but disapproved by his plan, purpose,government and leadership, and is therefore lacking guidance and definition according to the word of God.
DeleteReprobate, "lost in the head", and not thinking with God, Romans 1:24-26, God has "given them up to uncleanness" as the absence of doctrine and thinking with God has been left to thinking in the emptiness, self-centeredness of SELF...what a empty pit! Mr. Shish
DeleteThe finnish translation to the word "reprobate" means to go through tests, to be strong in them. Paul says here that if Christ isn't in you, then you cant be strong in tests. When Christ in us we have the power to overcome any test.
Deletereprobates in 2 cor 13:5 when translated form English to Greek is the work adokimos. this word in the original Greek form is dokimos which means approved/ acceptable. putting the 'a' in front of dokimos makes it 'anti' or negative. Adokimos as a negative particle adj in 2cor 13:5 means unapproved/unacceptable the word is describing what person can become when God gives hem up to themselves because of their constant denial to His grace.
DeleteReprobate in Greek "unapproved, counterfeit". 1828 Webster has a great definition "not enduring proof or trial; not of standard purity or fineness". P. Stevens said that even though we might be saved we are not allowing God's words to dwell in us.
ReplyDeleteI like this thought.Thanks AGranaci
DeleteThe word reprobate as I read in ASV. ROM. 1:28 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: MEANS that a person is totally without God or even thinking of him on his mind, so God is allowing him over to his own will full mind to choose whatever he wills or sins to do in his life without God, self-center
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely right on Bill...the idea of self-centeredness has moved that person to a place of taking the place of God....just as Satan did...so if thinking is on me why would I need to think about or prioritize him....counter doctrine, counter Christ, counter Word of God...I will be statement's repeated...thanks be to the grace, love, and mercy of God that meets us where we're at and washes the mind by his Word....:)
DeleteThe word reprobate as I read in ASV. ROM. 1:28 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: MEANS that a person is totally without God or even thinking of him on his mind, so God is allowing him over to his own will full mind to choose whatever he wills or sins to do in his life without God, self-center.
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered about the target audience of this verse - whether or not the "reprobate" was saved or not. It's so great to dig in and learn from the original language, and of course from great men of the Bible - P. Stevens, for example!
ReplyDeleteWe are not reprobate "disqualified" from the call of God on our lives. We may refuse to accept our call that God has given but God will see to it that we fulfil it. Jonah is a good example.
ReplyDeleteI like the example of Jonah and that we may refuse to accept our call. We don't want that reprobate mind because then we will be missing Gods ultimate plan for our lives which is better than any idea we have for ourselves.
DeleteWe are not reprobate "disqualified" from the call of God on our lives. We may refuse to accept our call that God has given but God will see to it that we fulfil it. Jonah is a good example.
ReplyDeleteUsing Strong's Concordance, the Greek transliteration is adokimos--failing to pass the test. Reprobate means when a person rejects God and His saving Grace, he has been rejected by God and God has stamped them eternally unapproved and are lost forever.
ReplyDelete"Reprobate" means to be disapproved, or disqualified before God. As P.Stevens says, once a believer is saved it is forever, but to be reprobate is basically to be thinking without God or the Word, and is rejecting His call for their life.
ReplyDeleteI like how you put that, "to be thinking without God or the Word, and is rejecting His call for their life" It is sad when we don't listen to the plan and our calling from the sovereign God, His plan is the best one for us.
DeleteARe we blessed in Bible College or not; to be able to receive doctrinal teaching from the Word, and feast as a member of a living body...no wonder we will be one with the vision....in our local church....Amen for God's perfect plan and sovereign will.
Delete"Reprobate" means to be disapproved or disqualified. P.Stevens says that once a believer is saved, it is Eternal. But a person can draw away from God, and to be reprobate is to be not thinking with God or His Word, and to reject His call for their lives.
ReplyDeleteIn 2 Corinthians 13:5 reprobate means to be disqualified.
ReplyDeleteAdokimos for the believer is not thinking with categories for God with the believer. It's also used in Romans 1:28, so i guess it can be unbelievers too, but it makes us function in the flesh and not God's plan and purpose.
ReplyDeleteIs it ok to post twice in a row? Either way, based on the other uses of it, it almost seems like there is a willing choice or ignorance in or against some category in life- having the knowledge but choosing not to apply it in those details.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Greek transliteration adokimos means failing the test. A reprobate is someone who rejects God and His saving grace. Because of this, God has stamped them unapproved by God and are lost forever.
ReplyDeleteIn the NKJV Bible, the word reprobate is translated as disqualified. If we let this happen, it means that we are becoming ''useless'' in the works of the kingdom of God. He will not be able to use us because we will be slowly going back to the former lust of our body.
ReplyDeleteWow, we become "useless" in the works of the kingdom. How sad it is that we would reject all the amazing things that God has planned for us. He is the all sovereign God so I believe that He has the best planned for me in life. When we don't rely on Him and His plan how much are we taking away from ourselves?
DeleteIn the NKJV Bible, the word for reprobate is translated as disqualified. It means that by not studying the word of God and not paying attention to Him, we became ''useless'' in the building of His kingdom. We will be going back to our former lusts and God cannot use that thinking and lifestyle for the spread of His Gospel.
ReplyDelete2 Corinthians 13:5 is referencing to the test as to whether Jesus Christ is in a person or not. It's speaking of either Jesus Christ residing in someone or reprobates. Which means Christ isn't in them, they're not saved.
ReplyDeletePastor Stevens said we can be saved and we don't lose salvation but we're not living in the Faith. So we're not thinking with God, He's not the primary source of thinking, Our flesh is.
ReplyDeleteThe definition of Reprobate is to disqualify or disapprove. I think in 2 Cor 13:5 it's really saying that God will test us, just to see how we manage the test.
ReplyDeleteThe definition of Reprobate is to disqualify or disapprove. I think in 2 Cor 13:5 it's really saying that God will test us, just to see how we manage the test.
ReplyDeleteThe form of this word is the noun. Reprobate(s)- an unprincipled person(s), rascal(s), wretch(es), degenerate(s). Hence, my previous comment is rather off. So it is one who lives in the flesh, or remains out of fellowship with God.
ReplyDeleteYour previous one just seems to hitt the other side of it. In at least Romans 1:28, God gives the unbeliever over to a reprobate mind. On either side, it seems like a denial of known doctrine, but the believer has security in Christ's work.
DeleteWe are covered by the blood, and that means we can rest in his grace. "Given over," but not lost from fellowship if we turn back...thank God for rebound, recovery, and resurrection life....it was done at the cross for you, me, and all who receive by faith the free gift....what love we've received.
DeleteI think the point being made in 2 Corinthians 13:5 is that if I really truly know and believe that Jesus Christ is in me, I am not reprobate. The key is to keep coming back to the Word and to the truth of what God has done and what He says about who I am in Him. A person who does not live in this can be reprobate
ReplyDeleteYou're right on Sarah G, we need to chose with our will the opportunity of being filled with the Holy Spirit, and through doctrine receive by faith the unconditional grace of God...yes...life in him....yes...true contentment....yes....perfect peace and rest...all in the work of our Savior through the catagorical promises that the Word guarentees. Praise God for his faithfulness and steadfastness, his mercy and love in particular to each of us. :)
DeleteI think the main point being made in 2 Corinthians 13:5 is that if i truly know and believe that Jesus Christ is in me, I am not reprobate. The key is to keep coming back to the Word and to the truth of what Christ has done and who I now am in Him. A person who does not live in this can be reprobate.
ReplyDeleteAmen to that! I like the way you think about this passage. AGranaci
DeleteI think in the verse when it says "reprobate" or disqualified it is referring to a sinner who chooses to stay living in their sin instead of accepting God's forgiveness. P. Stevens says that reprobate means not thinking with God. If we are not thinking with God then we will sin.
ReplyDeletePastor Scibelli talked about this in Friday night's class. In Romans Chapter 1, verses 18-32, it says three times that God gives the unrighteous over (Greek = "Paradidomi") to a "reprobate" mind. (more specifically in verse 28) "Akathisia" = Lust; dishonorable, shameful, diseased passions. A reprobate mind can include not just the old sin nature in the flesh, but an impartation of evil as well. This evil is a direct attack against God's glory. Sin is only falling short of His glory. Carnal Christians and obviously the unsaved are not conforming to the image of Christ, and therefore, God lets them choose in their free will to believe the lies of the wicked world system, which is saturated in infectious (Greek = "poneras") evil. This makes me think of the days of Noah, when every man's mind was reprobate continually.
ReplyDeleteYes, Jeremy, God gives the Believer over to that which they insist with their volition, but He will never give up on us, affording us the provision of rebound.
DeleteWhen a believer stops thinking with God and allowing the Word to govern his life, he is in a state of disqualification -operating in the lusts of the flesh. Unable to function in the objectivity of the Word, a reprobate mind is ignorant of Bible doctrine.
ReplyDeleteRight! Exactly what i was thinking. and for the person there is no coming back because his desire for sound doctrine is gone, he gives over to the osn completely and God gives them up to it.
Deletewhat i think this verse is talking about is how God tests our doctrine through putting us through trials. and our response to the trials proves whether we have real doctrine or if we are just going through religious motions of being saved when actually we are not
ReplyDeleteYes, E.Groenewold, trials in our walk with God are opportunities for us to apply what God has given us by Grace!
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ReplyDeleteAmen to both, Sarah G. Vine's refers to reprobate as "not standing the test, rejected." In 2 Cor. 13:5 " the test is whether Christ is in a person."
ReplyDeleteAmen to Sarh G's comments. Vine's defines reprobate as not standing the test, rejected. It refers to the "great test of whether Christ is in a person..."
ReplyDeleteP. Stevens refers to the Laodician people when writing about "One Way to Kingdom Living", that God said they were saved but "I am within you, but my Kingdom is not reigning in you." P. S. says to examine ourselves, if we are too lazy, careless, or proud. He counsels that in Hosea 2:15, "God takes that which is cursed and turns it into a blessed hope for every believer."
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ReplyDeleteThe meaning of the word "reprobate" is disqualified, disapproved or unaccepted, but if we go through Bible we can find spiritual meaning for this word that means a person, who is not thinking and staying with God. Psa. 119:59 ; 139:23,34 ;Jer. 6:30 ; Jhn. 15:4 ;17:23 ; Rom. 1:28 ; Gal. 2:20 ; Eph. 2:22 ; Col. 1:27 ; 1Jhn. 3:20 ; Rev. 2:5 ; 3:3 ...........
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about last night's message, I thank God for His encouragement. There can't possibly be any room in the mind for reprobation if God's Grace and love is encouraging it.
ReplyDeleteGreat Comment Brigida! It's amazing that the Lord will give us all that we need to avoid becoming reprobate! pw
DeleteReprobate means 'Disqualified' or 'Disapproved'. Once we have let Jesus into our hearts, no matter how much we may backslide or deny God, we cannot be disqualified from being with Him.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct in terms of our being in union with Him, but our disqualification comes when we stand before Him @ the Bema Seat with wood, hay, stubble 1Cor.3.12-15
DeleteMeaning that we are disqualified from the rewards?
DeleteIndeed. But not from Zoe life. The test is by fire and the Life of Christ in us has already passed that test. We will be rewarded on the basis of what we carried out in the nature of His life.
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ReplyDeleteP. Stevens refers to the Laodicean Christians who were saved, and whom God said "I am inside of you, but my Kingdom is not reigning in you." P. S. states reprobate is to be disapproved of, that it is by the Trinity--"the Planner, the Executor, and the Revealer---that we are guided ...according to the Word of God."
ReplyDeleteP. Stevens refers to reprobate as disapproved of, that God said of the Laodicean Christians that "I am inside you, but I am not reigning in you." P. S. says we are to examine ourselves for carelessness, laziness, and pride. He refers to Hosea that God disapproves but also extends hope.
ReplyDelete1 Peter 1:14b, it says that we go back to our old lusts in ignorance, and this might be because of lack of study or just because we refuse to study it. This must be a constant trial, to stay close to the Word and God in every situation.
ReplyDeleteIt is so true that it is a constant trial to stay close to the Word. It takes concentration and focus on the Word and not the world. It is very easy for us to become distracted by our natural ways and put God on the back burner of our lives. We need to keep Christ as our focus.
DeleteAmen! Keep Christ the main focus and He will add anything else that we need, not what we want or what we think we need. God knows what we really need. Satans desire is to lead us astray with natural ways that may seem tempting. Dont let your flesh/osn give in. Keep the main thing the main thing... Christ!
DeleteWhen a believer stops thinking with God by allowing the Word to govern his life, he is in a state of disqualification-operating in the former lusts of the flesh. Not functioning in the objective Word, a reprobate mind is ignorant of bible doctrine.
ReplyDeleteWhen a believer stops thinking with God by allowing the Word to govern his life, he is in a state of disqualification - operating in the former lusts of the flesh. Not functioning in the objective Word, a reprobate mind is ignorant of bible doctrine.
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ReplyDeleteIf a believer refuses to hear and neglects studying the Word, his mind is reprobate. The Amplified translation of 2 Cor 13:5 implies a reprobate is a counterfeit - a fake representation of the real thing. If a person is not living in application of the Word in the Spirit, he will be led aside from the truth (PLANAO).
ReplyDeleteThat makes me think of the verse in James 1:22, "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." It's one thing to sit under the Word and hear it, but if we are not applying it in our daily lives what does it profit us? We have to live out this life that God has placed before us by hearing and receiving the Word and then going out by faith and applying what He has revealed to us.
DeleteThis makes me think of the verse in James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." It's one thing to sit under the Word and hear it, but if it doesn't affect us inside what does it really profit us? I want to be changed on the inside and i want the effect to be seen on the outside. All God wants is for us to make ourselves available to and be a doer of the work that he is doing on the inside. If we're available to what God has for us, there is no way we will ever become reprobate toward the things of God.
DeleteThat's good. Counterfeit. Having the outward form without the daily fellowship with God.
DeleteOne Way - Jesus.
Mary, That makes me think of when P. Groenewold in fri night class was talking about Rom 1:18 i believe, "those who hold the truth in unrighteousness" means the truth is held back, it is made dumb and is no longer applicable in their lives to set them free. Amen to what katelyn said also, its very important to learn to apply the word in our lives or else it means nothing... Lord teach us to apply what we hear by faith and have an outward effect also on others. Be ready to give an answer always which only comes if we are learning through hearing and application.
DeleteAmen to all! Living in grace and application as we walk in the Spirit keeps us from drifting away from our walk with God. Even when we fail, He is faithful to draw us back. The riches in the body of Christ keep us hid in Him and built up by faith. Grateful for each expression of edification that is able to deliver us from a reprobate mind!
DeletePaul's closing in 2 Corinthians 13:14 should always remind us that no matter what are present state we have "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit" to encourage and strengthen us.
ReplyDeleteThe use of the word reprobate or adokimos means "that which does not prove itself such as it ought". As believers, our minds should be the opposite and prove worthy of the high and holy calling on our lives. However, living in our flesh will not help us succeed in trials placed in our lives to strengthen our faith.
ReplyDeleteIn v11 in the Amplified it says "Be strengthened (perfected, completed, made what you ought to be)..be of the same [agreeable] mind one with another;...and THEN the God of love and peace will be with you." As we think with the Mind of God in oneness with each other, it is then that we are capable of personally experiencing His peace that passes understanding and super abounding love, which then casts out a reprobate mind.
ReplyDeleteWhen you are not on the right stand with God, you will follow the wisdom of the earth or below. When you have God you have the wisdom of Heaven that is from above. God sent his son that died because of our sin. Meanwhile Satan despises the word of God. He doesn't want us as human beings to call upon God's name at any time.
ReplyDeleteTo be reprobate is to be a person that has rejected the faith. They have no fellowship and are unmoved by the Holy Spirit. Its sad to think that one can lose fellowship with God, but its all caused by ones own individual choice. God is always available to us, we just have to make ourselves available to HIm.
ReplyDeleteReprobate means disqualified or disapproved – we examine ourselves and find no change in the way we think or how we function in our daily life. According to Dr. Stevens the effect of this on our life is that we live in our flesh, not allowing the Word of God to teach us.
ReplyDeleteIn 2Cor13:5adokimos-that which does not prove itself such as it ought, the results of the test prove that you are not what you ought as a believer.The quality of his/her life doesn't prove it, though he/she is a believer.AGranaci
ReplyDeleteFrom my research of "reprobate," it seems to me that it represents everything we were in our old sin nature summed up in one word. We can take comfort in knowing that the the Father no longer sees this nature in us, just Christ.
ReplyDeleteYeah…I’m finally published! I may have trouble getting my comments published but I’ve been following other people’s comments and have blessed by them. Hopefully through this class I'll see the doctrine I think I know in my head have an increasingly positive impact on how I live my everyday life
ReplyDeleteYes, S.Carr, it is our prayer that all of this and the Word through the Spirit will become our life and greatest form of worship!
DeleteThat is my hope as well!
DeleteI believe "reprobate" as used in II Cor. 13:5, means disapproved or disqualified. As believers we should examine or test ourselves to see if Christ is in us and if He is, we will see it in our thinking, our actions and our words. However, if our thoughts and actions and words are those of our OSN, then Christ will disapprove of us and there is no peace or fellowship with Jesus Christ. Positionally saved and secure, but experientially, living like the world; we are not thinking with God and according to His word. This is based, of course, on the fact that you are truly saved.
ReplyDeleteReprobate means disqualified, not proving to be what we ought to be. When we stop thinking with God and His word we become disqualified and are not living up to our full potential in Him.
ReplyDeletePastor Stevens says if at any time we are not thinking with God (making categorical doctrine the primary source of our thinking), then we will start to think according to our OSN and our lifestyle will exhibit things of the world. It all starts with "who are we thinking it" and it will led to certain decisions and ultimate actions - these actions with either glorify Jesus Christ or they will glorify satan.
ReplyDeleteOne way to remove this reprobate mind we possess is to be in total surrender to God's will. For instance, Abraham in Genesis 13:9 Abraham said if you go to the right I will go to the left, if you go to the left i will go to the right. Lot on the other hand stuck in his reprobate mind went with what he saw was the best provision. In the end Abraham ended up with the best lot of land because he sought the fathers will.
ReplyDeleteWhen Pastor Stevens was explaining the verse he said we should test ourselves to make sure we are thinking according to Bible Doctrine and to prove ourselves to make sure we are living in the faith. When he explained what reprobate meant in that verse it meant falling short of that proving process. When we live in the flesh and don't allow the Word to teach us we are no longer living in or thinking with Doctrine.
ReplyDelete"Reprobate" seems to be someone who "fails the test". God was testing the Isrealites (Deut. 13:3) to see whether they really love Him or not. It seems that we as people are like that- we will often fail the test, but when we continue in the faith we will learn to persevere if we don't quit. It's not that we wouldn't fail, but it's what we do after that - to continue to walk by faith with God or to turn into other things, other gods - that's the challenge.
ReplyDeleteI think that's what Paul is saying to the Corinthians - right now are you living by faith in God or not?
We can now take everything we have learned in our own personal study of "Reprobate," and put it to other verses that us it. Like in: Romans 1:28
ReplyDeleteAnd even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a "REPROBATE" mind, to do those things which are not convenient; OR 2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jan'nes and Jam'bres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, "REPROBATE" concerning the faith.
I think the verse is saying that when we assess ourselves, unless Christ is in us we will not stand the test/ultimately come up short.
ReplyDeletepastor stephens says reprobate is to be disapproved of. he said to ask forgiveness of our sins and God will forgive and erase our sins.
ReplyDeletegrace igigwe
Unapproved, unworthy, weight of judgement. P. Stevens says he who has a reprobate mind we cannot properly think w/ God.
ReplyDeleteThis is a test.
ReplyDeletePastor Stevens said about a reprobate mind that "When we stop thinking with God, we become disqualified in the details of life, unable to function in the objectively of the Word."
ReplyDeleteIn 2 Cotinthianss,Paul said that if were're not taking active steps to grow closer to god, then we are drawing further away from himPaul wanted them to build relationships by sharing, caring and communicating with one another..
ReplyDeletePaul asked the Corinthians to examine and test themselves to see if they were following God's Word (sound Doctrine). He wanted them to see if they maintained an Awareness of Christ's pressence in their lives. Paul wanted Agape Love to flourish among them, even to those who were ruining their lives with sin. He didn't want them to just hear the words, but to practice them..
ReplyDelete